This weekend will deliver to us some of the most entertaining games of the college football season. I will go more into my personal favorite Army v. Navy later this week. But the championship games offer some very compelling drama: It starts on Friday night in the MAC, with Ball State looking to stay undefeated by taking on upstart Buffalo. In the SEC you have Florida taking on Alabama for a BCS title game bid, in the Big 12 you have Missouri against Oklahoma, even the ACC offers a compelling championship game with Boston College and Virginia Tech.Sadly, once again the Big Ten is sitting out and letting the rest of the college football universe thrive this weekend without making a peep. Penn State (and maybe Ohio State) are going to charge into their BCS bowl games facing a layoff of more than 50 days. We started this discussion in the infamous Chaos on the Sidelines post, but I wanted to throw it out there again with some structure.
My Statement: It is time for the Big Ten Conference to add a 12th team, divide the conference into two divisions, and set up a Championship Game. Doing so will enhance the national perception of the conference and allow us to better compete in the new world order of college football.
Who should get added ? There is obviously a lot of discussion and lobbying that would occur before any of this would happen, but I want to throw a couple of schools on the table and deliver a brief discussion about the teams. These options are presented in no particular order.
Cincinnati: Personally, I think it would be a very good idea to add the 12th team from the state of Ohio. The depth of the high school football talent from that state is the best in the conference and it would be nice to have Ohio State face some competition from inside the state. The Bearcats have built a solid football program and have traditionally had a strong basketball program. Academically they are ranked as a Tier III school. There are no Tier III schools currently in the B10.
Ohio: Again, focusing in on adding a school from Ohio. This obviously would be a long term project, looking to capitalize on a potentially strong brand name. Not likely to happen because the Bobcats don't have a very strong athletic program when they compete against MAC schools. Academically they are ranked 116th. Another downside is that Buckeye fans and the Best Damn Band in the Land would have to learn how to spell "State".
Miami of Ohio: In my opinion, Miami of Ohio is the best choice for the Big Ten from the state of Ohio. They have solid traditional history, a very nice campus, a decent academic ranking and have delivered MAC success across many sports. I believe that they would struggle with the larger schools much like Northwestern, but I think that if we are looking to add someone from the MAC, adding the Redhawks makes a lot of sense.
Syracuse: I never thought about Syracuse until 616goblue brought it up in our initial chaos thread. Despite their current football woes (hey, they beat Notre Dame) and they have a nice overall athletics program. Academically they rank 53rd, which would place them in the middle of the pack. Plus, I really like the idea of opening up the state of New York to the Big Ten. I have lived in western New York and there are a lot of Big Ten fans there already. Travel could be a problem, but so is getting to Penn State.
Pittsburgh: The Panthers have always made a lot of sense as the 12th team. If we are not going to add another team from Ohio, Pennsylvania is the next best choice. Academically they are ranked 58th, just behind Ohio State. They would deliver a strong football team and the other sports aren't bad either. The city and stadium are great. The real draw for adding Pitt would be re-ignition of their heated rivalry with our friends in Happy Valley. Before Penn State joined the conference the Pitt/Penn State rivalry was one of the best in the country.
West Virginia: Someone else brought up West Virginia as a potential 12th Big Ten team. Honestly, I don't consider them a viable option. Academically they are not ranked (they show up as a Tier III school). They have a created a strong athletic program, based primarily on their football success. Culturally I believe that their fan base would be a shock to the system of many in the conference, making Spartan fans look like Ivy Leaguers. Without the lingering animosity towards Rich Rodriguez, the Mountaineers would not even be in this discussion. It is already boring to me and nationally that storyline will die over time.
Notre Dame: I am only adding Notre Dame to provide an answer to those that want to say the Irish are the "natural choice". Yes, I consider Notre Dame a great choice. They have both the academics and athletics to fit into the higher echelons of the conference. But past history, economics, and reality tells me that the Irish are never going to join the Big Ten. There is no logical reason for them to do so. They already get to play all the B10 teams the want and don't have to share any revenue with anyone. It isn't going to happen.
Iowa State: So far each option I have discussed has been an eastern choice. There really isn't a decent choice if you want to look west. Iowa State offers a natural rival for Iowa, but that is about it. They are ranked 89th academically and near the bottom in the Big 12 in most sports. Since they already get to play Iowa in everything they want to play them in, I just don't see them being interested in leaving the Big 12 and heading to the Big 10. Missouri and Nebraska have also been listed as options, but I don't see them bolting from their current B12 situation.How do you set up the divisions ? For simplicity sake, I will assume that a western school is not going to be the choice. The first issue to address is that of traditional rivalries, they need to and will be taken care of. The current power base obviously in the east with Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State and eventually (god willing) Michigan. I believe that is acceptable, if you look at the B12 and SEC model, obviously there are existing stronger divisions and it works. Over time the power will balance out.
East Division: Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Team #12
West Division: Purdue, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Northwestern
Shorty suggested this as an alternative to provide some balance in the current power structure.
Lakes Division: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern
Plains Division: Penn State, Team #12, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois
Unbalanced schedule ? You should play each team in your division each and every year. You would play four teams from the other division each year, rotating teams on & off the calendar like we currently do.
Championship game weather concerns ? I really have no great desire to sit at Chicago's Soldier Field in December watching Michigan playing Wisconsin, but I will do it if necessary. I love Ford Field and think that Lucas Oil Stadium and the Metrodome offer some decent indoor options inside the conference territory.
Let me know what you think ?
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26 comments:
Great post,
I love the posts that encourage thoughtful discussion. I respectfully feel that a realignment with the big three in one division is wrong and would never happen as the presidents of all three schools would fear far less opportunities for a Big 10 Championship and as a consequence a fall in prestige and revenue generated. If their team were to fall sizeably behind in the arms/teams race, it would be that much harder to compete and regain power in such a stacked division. Just think of it, three teams all vying for one spot to face an inferior opponent for the conference crown. It'd be like Texas, Oklahoma, and USC fighting it out to face the Big 12 North winner... meaningless. The final game between the two survivors of the three team power division would become bigger than the conference title game.
Just think of it this way, would you rather we have another Red River Rivalry that ultimately decides the Conference Champ in an ultimately weaker Big 12 title contest (not since, nor should we expect that other than NEB has the Big 12 consistantly had some serious competition between the divisions), or an SEC equivalent alignment of balance where the title game really is up for grabs. For the sake of a Big 10 title game I would like a balanced alignment that wouldn't let Wisky or Iowa become title game regulars due to a weaker division while Penn State, OSU, and Mich have to duel it out for a spot. It's Texas, Oklahoma, and USC in the same versus no one who can challenge, or an SEC with LSU, Auburn, Alabama, and Arkansas vs. Tenn, Florida, and Georgia. Mich, Penn State and OSU are our powers and deserve to be split up, and due to the rivalry, OSU and Mich have to be in the same division. It also protects the prestige of our storied rivalry as the winner will likely represent that division in the title game.
As for a title game venue, I agree. Ford Field, Lucas Oil Stadium, and the Metrodome offer the best choices. For variance and an outdoorsy feel, Heinz Field, the Bengals field, Soldier Field, and the Dawg Pound all offer the availability. No other conference has such a plethora of choices!
Personally, I would prefer to see the Big 10 remove a school and go back to being the Big 10. If a 12 game schedule is going to be the norm, they could play 9 conference games and would end up playing each other. I'm not a big fan of the Conference Championships that some other conferences have because they throw everything into chaos when the favored team gets beat.
Barring removal of a game, if 12 games is the norm, instead of the 4 Non-Conference games, they could schedule 10 conference games and only have 2 non-conference games.
But if they did add a 12th team, I think the alignments would have to be such that Michigan and Ohio State are not in the same division with the caveat that they still play each other every year.
I like the idea of going to 10, but how do you justify peeling a school off? Someone would have to be willing to leave willingly.
Everyone points at Northwestern, but they are a charter school and are unlikely to leave - there's also no other natural larger conference for a school in the Chicago area to join.
The most "logical" choice would be to send PSU packing, but I suspect some would have problems with that...
mikoyan...do you really want to see UM and OSU play each other twice a year? That could happen a lot if they are in separate divisions.
I like the plains/lakes division set up with one of the 4 big east schools mentioned being team #12...preferably Pitt.
I don't really want to see them play twice, but I work with a Nebraska fan who laments the fact that Nebraska doesn't play Oklahoma every year. I don't want to see yet another rivalry go to the wayside at the behest of the almighty dollar.
As I said, I'm a bigger proponent of going back to a 10 Team Big Ten. I don't think Northwestern should be that team that gets peeled off though. I could see Penn State but they are shaping up to be a power in the Big 10. I could see Indiana, Illinois or Purdue leaving though.
And if we aren't going to peel a school off, they should at least try to make an effort to play each other school. Like I said, a 10 game conference schedule and 2 non-conference games. Or a 9 game conference schedule so that only 1 team gets left out every year. Like alot of other people, I get tired of every year where one of the Big 10 teams make a play and the bobbleheads say, "Well they didn't play Michigan or Ohio State this year".
But the real thing that chaps my ass is the fact that Penn State sitting at 1 loss isn't even going to be considered for the National Championship.
And if 12....
North: Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue
South: Ohio State, Penn State, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa and #12
Weis to stay another year at ND. So, how do you feel about that?
wv = nesis (which is the abbr. for nemesis)
He threatened to feed them to the Sarlaac if they fired him.
I agree with Mikoyan. Setting up the schedule for a round robin within the conference would solve a lot of problems. Instead of Notre Dame and 3 cupcakes that everyone complains about we could play one cupcake and Notre Dame and the rest of the games would all have added significance.
But if we set up a schedule with only 2 non conference games with one being ND, we would not be able to help as many MAC or Div II schools get the big payday from getting trounced by Michigan at the Big House. Oh wait, maybe that is not such a bad idea after all considering Toledo and App State. If a divisional system is put in place I would prefer Michigan and tosu being in different divisions but still playing each other the last game of the regular season. It may set up playing them again in the championship game but could also set up senarios where they could nock each other out of that game. Nothing we come up with will satisfy everyone and it really doesn't matter since the BT does not seem interested in any of this. It sure makes for some interesting discussion though.
I guess the big question is...Does the Pac 10 play each other every year or is 1 team left out of the fray?
Mikoyan,
Couldn't let go of Illinois, Indiana or Purdue... Illinois is the third best academic institution behind NW and Mich (and is surprisingly strong nationally as well as being the founder and largest established greek community in the nation), and also a strong basketball foundation. They also serve to greatly solidify the Chicago market. Indiana is one of the most successful basketball programs in the nation. In a sport where it is harder to stay on top of than College Football, there are many fewer established powers. UCLA, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, and Indiana are the only established superpowers. FYI- Purdue happens to be the all-time leader in Big Ten basketball championships. They as well are a basketball staple that goes under the radar.
I am not an advocate of expansion at this time nor in the near future, but recognnize that it may happen in the coming decades, especially if a college football playoff is put in place of the BCS.
What about The University of Louisville
North: Michigan, Michigan St., Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio St., Northwestern
South: Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Penn St., Iowa, Louisville
The Championship Game Played in Chicago, Detriot, Indianapolis
Andy,
nice, thought provoking piece. Pitt would be a very good candidate. i think WVU is a little better school than you suggest- their law school and med school are both well regarded.
looking east, you might also want to consider Rutgers (which is The state U of NJ) or Va Tech (which does not have a long standing connection to the ACC like UVa).
Tosu would never allow UC in the conference (or any other ohio school) but Louiville might make a good candidate. also, Mizzou would be more attractive (IMO) than iowa st.
i guess i'd narrow it down to Rutgers or Mizzou, as both are big, public state schools w/ decent academics and strong funding. either would bring a new, good sized TV market (Mizzou would add St Louis & KC/Rutgers the whole east coast) and expose the big ten to new areas of the country.
Sorry about the long post here.
How about this proposal? Instead of splitting the conference up into two divisions, split it up into four divisions and have a four team playoff.
For example
North: Michigan, Ohio State, Illinois
South: Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
East: Penn State, Michigan State, Team 12
West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa
Here is how a regular season schedule would be set up
Let’s use Michigan as an example
• You play 2 division games. Ex. Ohio State, Illinois
• 3 Rivalry games against each other division. Ex. Michigan State, Minnesota, NW
• 2 Rotating Division games. Say Michigan were to play the south they would play Purdue and Indiana two years and then play the west.
Here is how the playoffs would be set up
• The top teams play each other say North plays East and South plays West
o In year 1 North and East have home games
o In year 2 South and West have home games
• The winners of those to games play in a championship game
• As for the rest of the teams
o Everybody plays 1 rotating home and away crossover game with another pre- aligned division
Let’s use Michigan as an example. Say Michigan finished in 2nd place and Illinois finished in first and they were aligned with the East division.
If Michigan State wins the division then Michigan would play whatever team Ohio State doesn’t have a rivalry with in the East. For example OSU’s rival in the east is Penn State. Then Michigan would play Team 12.
If two rivals from the North and East make the playoffs then the two 2nd place teams play and the two 3rd place teams play.
Here is a simple breakdown.
• 2 division games
• 3 Rivalry games
• 2 Other division games
• 1 Guaranteed playoff game or extra regular season game
• 1 Championship game for the winners of the first place teams
• 4 Non conference games
interesting. but a little on the "weird as fuck" side.
Will,
"Sorry about the long post here."
Don't worry dude, have you seen the size of my posts. It's like I am physically unable to post under 500 words. Seriously.
Concerning your alignment, I agree with Ohio Guy, intriguing but a little on the "Weird as fuck" side.
As for the twelfth team... has to be either Syracuse (if your concern is marketing/money/prestige as there is no bigger market to tap than NY and SYR is a thousand times more connected to NY and prestigious than RU) or Pitt (if your concern is preservation of mid-western tradition and the addition of a school that would add best to the prestige, competitive respect and intrigue of the Big 10 from the get-go).
As for Weis... I'm so glad he will be back. I want him at ND. I don't want them to be good ever again. I encourage that program to flounder as much as possible and to stay away from Brian Kelly in the meantime... Gosh I wish Washington would hire him.
I didn't realize that my post wasn't that long.
It really isn’t that strange. Each team in the Big Ten has two permanent rivals that they play already. Under this plan you have five teams you play every year with the other six rotating in and out every two years. The only real strange part is that you play an unknown eighth conference opponent every year.
About that West Virginny thing.....I've been to Cedarfest a few times. You're telling me that eers are going to burn more than couches? Like what? Cabins? Single wides? Where the hell are they going to get the cop cars to tip?
Too tired to read all the previous posts...but I don't like the idea of playing OSU first, then a championship game...which would never again be against Ohio State (assuming you would put them in our division).
4 Words: Association of American Universities! Remember that the Big Ten is also the CIC--the conference's academic arm. Also remember that the Big Ten takes huge pride in being the only major athletic conference in which all the members are also AAU members. The Big Ten faculties and presidents have made it abundantly clear that there is only one non-AAU university that would be considered for membership, and that candidate resides in South Bend, IN and has an obese coach.
So rule out all the Ohio schools and WVU. Besides, OSU would veto any of their in-state little brothers, and the conference wouldn't be interested in adding them anyways as they don't turn on any additional television sets.
Personally, I think Pitt is the best choice: strong academics, AAU member, natural rival for Penn State.
We don't need a conference title game. We already have one, it's played in Ann Arbor or Columbus every year.
What Dylan said!!!
First of all, remember why conference championships came into being in the first place....The SEC and B12 needed money for their second rate schools because they didn't have the media pull we did in the B10. Many of you are too young to remember this, but at one time, the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry was mentioned in the same breath with tOSU-Michigan, Auburn-Alabama, OU-Texas, Army-Navy.
Are you all so depressed about not beating tOSU that you are willing to throw away the greatest rivalry in sports and the legacy of Bo and Woody?
On top of that, we are in competition with those rednecks in the south. So NOT having a conference championship is an advantage. Why give it up? USC and the PAC10 have no intention to do so.
In my opinion, Notre Dame is the obvious choice. No doubt there. But since the Notre Dame "faculty senate" wants to be difficult and if it was up to me to decide a 12th team, I would choice Pitt. Remarkable academics, improving football program with impressive history, great basketball program. Not to mention, the rivalry would be renewed with Penn State which is something that they have to bring back. Also, Pitt is right in the middle of Ohio State and Penn State so it's convenient. Don't forget Pitt is a bigger school than what people think. If they were to join the Big Ten today, they would be 4th biggest school behind Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan State. But Penn State's overhyped last game with Michigan State is BS and irrelevant. When you think of it, Penn State doesn't really have a true rival. For example, even though Ohio State and Penn State are a great matchup, with two neighboring states with excellent football programs in HS and College, Ohio State and Michigan are the fierce rivals so no can do. Even with the Michigan State game, Michigan State cares more about the rivalry with Michigan.
Syracuse is a good choice for academics and decent athletics but their football program is shaky. It's just not there yet. Their geographical location could be a stretch as well. Cincinnati...I'm not too sure what to think about them. For some reason, I can't picture them competing in the Big Ten. For the sake of picking an Ohio team and I had the choices of Cinci, U of Ohio, or Miami of OH, I'd choice Cinci but nothing impresses me with those 3 anyway. West Virginia...the culture shock is a nail in the coffin on that one. I'd also have to say that West Virginia wouldn't want anything to do with us if Rich Rodriguez would still be around. The West Virginia fans make Spartan fans look like Ivy Leaguers was hilarious by the way...
Iowa State...all due respect, they're not good enough. Now what's interesting is if you look at the US map, west of Wisconsin and Illinois is Minnesota at the top, just below is Iowa, and underneath could be Missouri. I think Missouri would be a solid choice but they seem pretty Big 12 happy.
Louisville would be an acceptable consideration. I also think Rutgers or Connecticut can be given a thought. Temple as well if their football program will get to where it needs to be. Boston College not bad either.
As far as the east/west division or plains/lakes division, it’s an interesting theory. I like the east/west idea because that means the east is stacked with the 4 power houses of the Big Ten but the plains/lakes division seems more fair.
Great topic to discuss...good stuff!
I realize I'm a little late to the discussion here, but I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
There are two things to remember about Big Ten expansion. The first is that Big Ten officials have stated that any expansion would be from a state with existing Big Ten members, or from a contiguous state. (All the schools listed in this post fit this criteria.) The second is that the Big Ten is more than just an athletic conference. There is a corresponding Academic organization, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation, that it is likely that any prospective University would be required to join. Big Ten Presidents aren't likely to let just anyone in, so it's very likely that the school will be a member of the AAU (American Association of Universities, an organization of schools focusing on research and graduate (and, to a lesser extent, undergraduate) education.
Starting with the list of AAU member schools, then, and only selecting schools that are Division IA in sports and are from existing or contiguous Big Ten states, we have:
University at Buffalo
Iowa State University
University of Maryland, College Park
University of Missouri
University of Nebraska–Lincoln
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
University of Pittsburgh
Syracuse University
Let's first knock out the schools that have strong identification with their existing conferences. Maryland, Nebraska, and Missouri are very unlikely to leave the ACC and the Big 12. I would actually add Iowa State to this list as well, but we'll leave them in for now. The rest of the institutions are either in the MAC or the Big East, and I think it's fair to say, probably don't have a great deal of loyalty their conferences at the moment.
So we're left with:
University at Buffalo - Not a likely addition, as even a victory over previously undefeated Ball State isn't enough to give them the athletic respectibility required to join the Big Ten.
Iowa State University - Neither academics or athletics are anything extraordinary, and they don't really add much geographically, as Iowa is already a member. The Big Ten would probably be better off as is than adding them, IMO.
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey - Good academics, and gives the conference an East Coast presence they have wanted. Not historically great athletically, but has improved recently.
University of Pittsburgh - Well-respected academically, and their athletic programs, as they currently stand, would be able to hold their own in the Big 10. Plus, they give Penn State the natural in-conference rival they don't really have now.
Syracuse University - Also very respected academically. Their athletic programs are currently struggling, but historically have been good, so there's reason to believe they can recover. Gives the Big 10 a presence in New York and a following in NYC, and also would give Penn State an in-conference rival. However, they are a private institution, and the Big Ten seems to have a bias towards public schools. Northwestern is private, of course, but they are a founding member of the conference.
Given these facts and opinions, my personal ranking of potential expansion targets for the Big Ten would be:
1a) University of Pittsburgh
1b) Syracuse University
3) Rutgers University (a somewhat distant third)
I could easily believe that the media markets that Syracuse offers would make them worth the pick, but Pitt just seems like a more natural fit to me. I would have no problem with either of them being added. I could be convinced that Rutgers would be a good choice, but I worry that they would simply become another Northwestern. (Don't get me wrong, I actually like Northwestern a lot, but expansion should bring in additional quality competition, and I'm just not convinced that Rutgers can maintain their recent success.) I don't think any other school is really even worth considering.
Notre Dame would be the exception to that, of course, but as Andy said, I just don't see it happening.
Love the topic. Just to clarify, Miami has an academic ranking better than MSU, Indiana and on par with Iowa and Purdue.
See http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/national-search/page+3
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